RedBoy Bloodline

RED BOY DOGS


For many years I have heard about Red Boy dogs. One of the first persons to popularize them was Katie Marlow also known as Carolina Kitten. She owned Triangle Acres Kennels. Her boyfriend, The Tom Cat, helped her to take care and handle the dogs. I heard, Red Boy dogs were extremely game with no mouth. Red Boy dogs are predominantly red nose and came from the Carolinas. My first thought of Red Boy dogs was, that they were probably Hemphill blood. Why I thought that is because they were red nose and Bob Hemphill was from S. Carolina. I always heard they were Colby blood from Howard Teal. I would see some of Howard’s dogs at conventions at Earl Adams in TN. I don’t ever remember any of Howard’s dogs looking like Red Boy or what he produced. So I started thinking about it more and more. I thought back years ago about other people that had Colby’s bloodline and I don’t remember any of them having dogs like the Red Boy dogs. I thought about people like Bob Neblett, Blair Hetrick’s, Walter Komosinski, J.R. Loposay and of the old Colby dogs. Many years ago I was up to Fergy’s place and he had just received 6 dogs from Medlin from his Outlaw blood. There was no Red Boy blood in them. As I thought about Medlin’s Outlaw dogs without Red Boy blood in them, none of them including Fergy’s were like Red Boy dogs. The 6 dogs that Fergy had were all ten-minute curs. Medlin’s Outlaw and Bass’ Red Boy Tramp were suppose to be half brothers from Teal’s Jeff.

Over the years from seeing and becoming more familiar with Red Boy dogs my opinion changed where they came from. I would see dogs like Deacon and his brother Hunter Red and feel sure there was Hemphill blood in them. Deacon and Hunter Red could pass for our dog Maud’s littermates. Maud was pure Hemphill bloodlines. As I began to see more Red Boy dogs my opinion changed more and more. When I saw Bailey’s Bingo I thought he could pass for Ch. Iron Bear’s twin brother. Especially the white on the muzzle, his mouth and the shape of his front end. Where my opinion greatly changed was when I acquired a pup named Tramp. Tramp’s sire was Deacon, his dam was Bailey and Long’s Blitz. Another occasion was when I acquired Jackel, her sire was Bingo and her dam was Lock’s Bliss. Bliss was a full sister to White’s Tab and Ch. Tramp. I bred Tramp to Jackel and the pups grew up to look like their parents.
The look of conformation of Tramp, Jackal and their pups were like our female Gr. Ch. Koko and Corvino’s Shorty.

One of the rumors that I heard about Red Boy dogs was, they come from a dog from South Eastern United States by the name of Ch. Whino. Whino bloodline was from Corvino’s Shorty. Another rumor that Bobby Holland, Yankee Boys and others would tell was that Bass claimed Red Boy’s blood came from TN. that Herbert Storms, Vera Storm’s husband, sent to TN. I knew a lot of people in TN. had similar bloodline like Storms.
If anybody has ever seen the pedigree on Storm’s Dibo, Dibo’s dam Stacy’s Taxi and on the topside of the pedigree you will see names like Christie’s Go Go and others. I first encountered George Christie back in the late 60’s early 70’s. George use to advertise in Bloodline Journal. Last time I talked to George he was on his deathbed in the middle 80’s. George and I had some similar stock from some Creed’s dogs. These dogs were based off Louis Baker’s dogs Shorty and Jack.
These were from the Red Devil bloodline.
George Christie sent Herbert Swafford Red Devil bred dogs to TN.
Clarence Yates sent Herbert Swafford (Bred like Spike) and Earl Adams dogs that created Cajun Lulu and Sunset.
If Red Boy was truly from the dogs from TN. This would explain the Hemphill/Red Devil look from Red Boy dogs that are ¾ or pure. I don’t believe this stock is from the Storm’s Dibo but from stock bred similar to her.
By the way, George also owned littermates to Ch. Iron Spike R.O.M.
I believe Red Boy is 75 to 80% Red Devil from Frank Creed of his Corvino/Clouse breeding
from his Stabber and Red Devil dogs.
The rest, 20 to 25% was of Hemphill blood of Herbert Storms or George’s stock off Wilder’s Mitzie,
(Spike’s older brother and sisters or litter mates).

Bass’ Cleo’s pedigree has never been in great question. Cleo’s father was Loposay’s Cash. Cash’s father was Loposay’s Bouncer. Bouncer was a littermate brother to Wise’s Sister Sue, inbred Ross’ Red Devil.
Thus making Bass’ Cleo 25% Ross’ Red Devil bloodline.
If you believe Bass’ Red Boy Tramp’s pedigree is correct his dam would be Mcleod’s Susie Q Gal. Susie Q Gal’s dam side would be Frank’s Sugar, Sugar’s mother’s side was pure Creed bloodlines from Rizer’s Bonnie, her sire was Geltz’ Tuffy, Ross’ Red Devil’s littermate brother, Bonnie’s dam was Lady Elgin, Lady Elgin’s pedigree appears in the old Your Friend and Mine published by Pete Sparks.
If my memory serves me right when Lady Elgin was bred to Tuffy it was line breeding like grandfather to granddaughter.

So whichever way you want to believe that Red Boy dogs are bred the FACT remaining is,
there are Ross’ Red Devil bloodlines in the Bass’ Red Boy Tramp bloodlines.

Ross’ Red Devil was predominantly made up of Corvino’s Shorty bloodline. Shorty’s sire was Bruce’s Jerry,
Jerry was from Con Feeley stock of the “Old Family Reds”.

Until next time………………
Yours-in-Sport

D.M. (Iron Mike) Norrod

RedBoy/Jocko Crosses

The Red Boy blood while contributing greatly to gameness in a line also has a reputation of producing a dumber than average dog, hence the term dumb game. This becomes more apparent when higher percentages of this bloodline are used. There is also another drawback to this line when bred tight and that is in the quality of mouth that these dogs will produce. Tight Red Boy breeding's tend to produce dogs with average to below average bite. This is something that is an undesirable trait for those that are looking at being competitive in the world of fast lane competition.

The quality of Red Boy dogs has also diminished as the years have gone on as a result of popularity. Many people today are using tight Red Boy stock that is not based on proven dogs, therefore the line in its pure form is not much better then it would have been 10 years back.

So what is better than Red Boy? How can we avoid the mistakes of those that have only sought out gameness from this line?

Today the best of this line was a result of a cross of the Jeep blood into the Red Boy line itself.

At one time this would have been looked at as a cross, however today the Jeep/Red Boy line is so highly refined that it produces a dog that is as game as the Red Boy line, but without many of the negatives that have been attached to a tighter Red Boy dog.

So what is an ideal combination?

The Jeep/Red Boy dog is no longer a hybrid cross, but rather a combination of the best that these two lines have to offer. It has also been refined over the past 10 years now to produce a dog that is as game as a pure Red Boy dog would be, but without the high percentages of dumb, or soft mouthed dogs that the Red Boy line has been known to produce. Another benefit of the Jeep/Red Boy line was an increase in the quality of the overall dog. You now have a dog with an abundance of gameness, high ability, and a mouth that would rate in the average to above average range depending on the percentages of each bloodline used in its pure form.

The Jeep/Red Boy line seems to offer the best that both lines have to offer in a 75/25 combination. That would be a 75% Jeep dog, with 25% of quality Red Boy blood. The higher the percentage of Red Boy in this mix brings down the quality of this line, as the undesirable traits of the Red Boy line will appear.

The first dog to truly break out and demonstrate the power of this combination was White’s Tab (ROM). Tab is a true 50% Jeep 50% Red Boy cross. Many of Tab’s first successes where dog that came as a result of breeding to Crenshaw’s Irene. Irene was a straight Jeep dog. The combination of Tab and Irene produced the first true tests of this theory. P. Rodriguez was one of the first to own a Tab x Irene dog and that dogs name was Gator. Gator made his championship into some of the best competition around in Rodriguez’s hands. Later due to some financial issues Ch. Gator was sold to Crenshaw who brought out Gator for one more win into some of the finest that Mexico had to offer. The dog then became known as Crenshaw’s Ch. Gator. Gator was a true 75% Jeep 25% Red Boy cross.

Crenshaw’s Ch. Gator was not only a successful combination of the Jeep/Red Boy line, but also ushered in a new generation of dogs that would be based on this successful combination. Gator unfortunately did not live an overly long life, but during his time that he was at stud he proved that he could reproduce these qualities. Crenshaw’s Ch. Gator has since become an ROM producer.

Another dog that is becoming quite well respected, as a producer is a brother to Ch. Gator named White’s K.A..

K.A. is owned solely by Pro Line Kennels, and has demonstrated in the limited number of breeding's made with him that he is without a doubt headed towards the ROM list with ease. K.A. would rate in the top 10% of stud dogs alive today. He throws powerfully built dogs that have an abundance of gameness, above average mouth, as well as intelligence. Even in the tightest of breeding's that have been made with K.A. there has always been a very high percentage of fast lane dogs.

Many are just starting to catch wind of this dog, and for good reason as well. The quality of offspring that K.A. is producing far exceeds that of any other Jeep/Red Boy dog alive today and at public stud. His sire Tab (ROM) is now part of the history of this breed, but because of his advanced age he has not been popular as a stud dog over the past year or so, and questions remain about his current state of fertility.

For those that have read my articles over the years, or purchased my book; “The Journal – A Book of Pedigrees” the proof is in the pudding. The articles I have written on Red Boy and his offspring have come to prove themselves correct.

Insight is one of the major components to being successful in the dogs, and for those looking to get a look into the future of the Jeep/Red Boy line, you need not look any further then White’s K.A..

K.A. is without a doubt the best producing son of Tab (ROM) and Irene alive today. He is also a dog that has a significant number of highly respected offspring that are fast lane material in percentages that surpass that of his sire Tab (ROM) based on number of breeding's.

For those looking to get in on the ground floor of what is truly the best that the Jeep/Red Boy line has to offer, you should be looking no further than K.A.

K.A. as mentioned above is solely owned by Pro Line Kennels. J. Crenshaw himself has stated publicly to many well-known and respected dog men that K.A. is good one. K.A. is not just a pretty pedigree dog. He's a well-proven game dog that is producing a caliber of offspring that are of the highest quality that can compete and win against the best that the world of fast lane competition has to offer. Scratchliner Kennels recently became aware of this when they lost with one of their finer bitches to a daughter of K.A..

For more information on K.A. you would be best to contact Pro Line Kennels. They can be reached by clicking the link below.

Pro Line Kennels

Feel free to print this article and to use it as a reference as years go on.

Mr. Jeep

DOGMAN: Maurice Carver

A Visit to Maurice Carver’s Home

By Pat Patrick

In 1970 Maurice Carver was likely the most famous active dog man alive. Earl Tudor was a living legend but he was not active then. Maurice Carver was known as an all around dog man. He was considered one of the best breeders of Game dogs as well as a skillful Handler and Conditioner. Maurice was so famous that if you told a dog man he would be another Maurice Carver it was quite a compliment. If a dog man was acting like a know-it-all someone might say… “who does he think he is, Maurice Carver.”

In 1970 Maurice was not matching nearly as many dogs as he used to. For the past few years he had concentrated on breeding and selling dogs. These dogs he sold were winning like crazy all over the U.S.A. and in Mexico. No, they did not always win, but they did win over 80% of their matches against the best competition. In June of 1970 I matched my first dog. The dog I was matching was TATER, a 50lb Red red-nosed dog. I purchased TATER from Keith Allen when he got out of the dog Game. TATER was a great dog and I was very confident he could beat any dog. Arny Steinberg helped me buy TATER from Keith and we matched TATER together. The dog that TATER fought came from Maurice Carver and his name was RASTUS. TATER won the fight in two hours and 10 minutes.

It was a great fight between two Ace dogs. Later Arny and I talked about what a great dog this RASTUS was. We had seen TATER crush the biggest toughest dogs around in 15 minutes or less. TATER had to come from behind to beat RASTUS and the damage RASTUS did was amazing. I believe RASTUS would have beaten any 50lb dog in the world except TATER. We decided if Maurice was selling dogs of this quality then we should buy a dog from him. I was pretty nervous about calling Maurice Carver. He was so famous and I was still a beginner. He was very easy to talk to. He congratulated me on the win over RASTUS and invited me to visit his place. I stayed at his house for two days and he showed me at least 125 dogs including about 15 Game tested, Match ready dogs. He had many dogs on his Yard. And about 50 more yards nearby. This was 1970 and the price he wanted for Match dogs was $500. He told me the style and Pit weight of each Match dog as well as their breeding. We talked dogs of course. You could learn a lot from Maurice Carver even in a casual two day visit. Most of the dogs available were what is now sometimes referred to as old Carver dogs. I don’t think he had bred any bitches to BULLYSON at this time. These were dogs heavy in BLACK WIDOW, RASCAL (Trahan’s) ZEKE, PISTOL, RENO, SAD SAC, and IRONHEAD. I really believe I was visiting the best all around dog Yard in the world. I can tell the readers that Carver’s IRONHEAD was definitely Maurice Carver’s favorite living dog in 1970. He was very proud of IRONHEAD and he beamed with pride when he showed me this great old dog. Maurice won three times with IRONHEAD. He took IRONHEAD to California and won a long hard Match with him. I think he also won with him in Texas. IRONHEAD’S hardest Match was against a Bitch in Mexico. This Bitch kept a jaw hold on IRONHEAD for 50 minutes but he still won the fight. IRONHEAD is even more famous for his Offspring than his excellent Pit record.

Maurice had named all his Game tested Match dogs he called them by name. I saw Norman Hooten’s famous CH. BUTCHER BOY when he was there. He had one Match dog that was priced at $800 instead of $500. He was the strongest, most perfect built dog I have ever seen. He was the Terrier type of dog, but very wiry and muscular. He moved like a cat. This dog’s name was PRINCE. I ask Maurice why PRINCE was $300 more than the other dogs. He told me that all the Match dogs were good fighters, but PRINCE was better than any of them. He could go right into the other dog’s mouth and ruin him that way. He said PRINCE would also work the head and throat like a champ and he would not hesitate to go into the stomach or privates. So you can see PRINCE is a dangerous dog. To this day I regret not buying PRINCE. PRINCE ended up with a Florida dog man.

He won a Match in 18 minutes when the other dog was picked up Game. He was killed in a Yard fight or he most certainly would have become a Champion or Grand Champion. He was a 39lb Brindle dog, one of the best. Arny and I were going in together on this dog from Maurice Carver. When I phoned him and told him about the Match dogs for sale he wanted to get a son of RENO and MISS SPIKE called DIAMOND. I wanted to bring PRINCE back, but I went along with Arny’s choice of DIAMOND. If I could do it again I would have let Arny buy DIAMOND and I would have bought PRINCE for myself.

Hell, come to think of it, if I could do it over again I would have bought a number of dogs from Maurice, but hind sight is perfect. After a very fine weekend I flew home with DIAMOND, a short stocky 40lb black and white dog. A few weeks later we rolled DIAMOND and he performed the way Maurice said he would. We challenged Freddie Jones and his two winner MAJOR, the best 41lb dog on the West Coast. MAJOR was six years old so we thought he may have slowed down a step or two. Maurice knew MAJOR well and he told us to win a fight with a lesser dog first to get our money back and then fight MAJOR. DIAMOND was three years old and we decided to take the MAJOR fight since DIAMOND had youth on his side. I put DIAMOND in real good shape and he won in 1 hour and 50 minutes when Freddie picked MAJOR up game.

I sold my half of DIAMOND to Arny. Arny matched DIAMOND into Freddie Jones Bart and DIAMOND was picked up Game at two hours and died after the Match. DIAMOND had shown in these two matches to be a high class Match dog worth much more than $500 we paid for him. I remembered the names of the different Match dogs Maurice had offered me for sale.

Over the next year or so I read about the Match dogs I could have bought winning matches for other dog men. I believe any dog Maurice offered me as a Match dog would have been a good one. The good dogs Maurice Carver bred and sold all over the country in the late sixties and early seventies improved the overall quality of gamedogs nationwide. I am glad I visited him and I wish I had gone back for more visits and good dogs.

The Alligator Bloodline

the story of plumbers alligator.

Alligator came about as almost an after thought. Mr. Williams of Ft. Worth had obtained the Satin Lady bitch from Maurice Carver. She was a big, black pretty bitch that I never cared much about as an individual. She was one of these scatter-bred dogs Maurice was famous for. Unlike most of the Carver dogs she was cold. When it came time to breed her Mr. Williams went to Wichita Falls, Texas and bred her to Tudor’s old Nigger dog, who was owned at that time by J.E. King. Nigger was some of the last of the old Tudor stuff and had been on several yards before King got him.

The breeding was made, and as they grew into adulthood I was able to see and handle all three of these dogs. Alligator, as great as he was, had two littermates that in my opinion were at least as good if not better than him. There were Soko and Susan Renee’, both real bulldogs in every way.

Mr. Williams kept Alligator until he was just over a year old, so he could breed him back to his dam, which he did. Soko had shown so good at a young age for the little Plumber that the Plumbers went in together to buy Alligator. When they bought him, I was certain they had an albatross, because he was so big. I figured they would never be able to get him hooked up. I also figured his chances of being as good as Soko were little to none at all. You have got to figure this was during an era of really great dogs, and who would ever expect this big, ugly dog to be anything special.

The Plumber’s started out with such a good bunch of dogs that they expected everything to be really fast lane. They had roll dogs better than most people’s match dogs, and were always looking for action and better dogs. They felt they never had the luxury of a methodical schooling process. They were great dog men, but were hard on the dogs. They felt their dogs were either ace or near ace, or they were out of here with little regard for mediocrity. Gator was started out on good dogs that were smaller than he was and most were just dominated by this optical illusion. There were also several Brush Matches where Alligator would just run over the competition. The Plumbers were concerned because they had never seen him get his oil checked, even though he had been double dogged on several occasions.

They had got a Tudor dog from me named Zeke that was a plug, but very game. A fellow showed up on that place, and in the course of conversation said the old black dog did not impress him that much and he would bet ole Zeke could whip him. The Plumbers, being ever ready to show what sports they were, agreed on the bet and down they went. The fellow who underestimated Alligator was soon separated from his money when he told them to pick up Zeke, who was no match for the Alligator dog. As the stranger left, he made a statement that always holds true in the Bulldog world. "You sure can’t tell one by how they look".

In their quest for perfection, they made a request to use Trussell’s Dum Dum dog to see if Alligator was truly game. Dummy you see was a game dog that was even bigger than Alligator. It seems that in that day and time any dog from a cross, scatter bred or real rough were suspect of being a cur, so they did everything they could to stop Alligator. When they got to Trussell’s they ran Alligator on the tread mill for one half hour then fifteen minutes road work to cool him down, then to the roll pit, where he went over half an hour with the larger Dum Dum dog. It was nip and tuck and Alligator went across when he shouldn’t have on wobbly legs. This roll turned out to be a pretty good game test for Dum Dum too. When asked how it turned out, Trussell said, "The black dog gave Dummy everything he wanted."

The next match for "Alligator" was in the Big League at one of Maurice’s big ten match shows. He went in as a definite underdog, going into Bryant, males fifty eight pounds. Both dogs appeared to be in excellent shape and came to fight with a fast hard pace set for big dogs. Alligator goes to the legs with Bryant’s dog Satin swapping it out and going from legs to nose, then getting into Gator’s stifle, where they swap it out. A turn is called on Satin at twenty-six minutes. A handle made at thirty minutes and Satin makes a good scratch. A handle is made and Alligator makes the scratch at forty minutes, taking Satin down to work the front legs. Satin takes the count at forty-five, making Gator the winner. There was much speculation among the huge crowd present if any one had a big one for this hound dog looking goof.

His next match was into a dog called Jack at catch weight. Alligator came in sixty pounds heavier. These heavy weights hit and the fight was on. Jack, a big staff looking dog takes Gator down and works him over for twenty minutes with Gator being content to take the bottom where he is always in hold. Gator is coming to the top and by thirty minutes it’s an even fight. Jack was a seasoned dog who had never met his equal and you can see Alligator has begun to come to the top as Jack begins to fatigue and get that far away look in his eyes. During the earlier part of the match, Bobby Ackel had commented on Gator may have met his match and Jimmy Jobe turned and said to me, as Gator was being trashed like a stepchild, "that if Jack was game and keeps this up, ole Gator could be in trouble". As the match was winding down Bobby Ackel said, "Ole Jack looks like he has bout had it", and sure enough in just the hour mark he takes the count. I went over to check on the Jack dog and offer any assistance I could and I noticed his stomach and chest. I could see what had made the difference in this match and it was the punishment Gator had dished out from the bottom and it was unbelievable. I heard later that Jack lived out his life in luxury after Gator ended his ring career.

There was some time after this match, as no one wanted any of the Gator dog, so during a roll session at the Plumbers’ place, the Caddell’s showed up with several to school. These boys had some old time stuff the old man had been breeding for years and some were sure solid, from the Lightner-Colby stuff. They had a male named Jeff that was a big spotted dog, too big for everything on the place except Alligator. So he was taken off the chain to oblige the Jeff dog. This dog was the closest thing to Gator’s equal that I saw during his career. The roll ended early due to a bleeder being hit on Gator. Jeff went to the Midwest where he did very well and where I heard he made Champion.

When the Plumbers had about given up on another official match, word came from Oklahoma that a man named Brown had one he would run at the Alligator dog. Up to then, several had fallen through, but this one came off and as they say in the dogs these boys "brought a paddle for the Plumber’s ass." They had done their homework and rather than a punisher, they brought one that not only could punish but was versatile and smart. This dog could have whipped Gator and on another day might have. The dogs were conditioned by two of the best conditioners of the day. Gator by Burton and Joker by Fox. The match was males at fifty-seven pounds and Oklahoma Shorty was the referee. The dogs hit and Gator takes the bottom but is coming up from time to time and being frustrated by Joker’s style, that had never been too effective on him with the defensive dogs he had met earlier in his life. A turn was called on Joker at twenty-five minutes, but a handle was not made until fifty-two minutes and Joker scratches strong. Alligator has started to dominate the match by the hour mark. At an hour nine, Gator is screaming from his corner to scratch and is showing what he is said to be famous for, "Killer Instinct" and you can plainly see he plans to finish the job if allowed to do so. At an hour twelve, Joker takes the count. We all agree, we have just witnessed two of the best big dogs to ever come down the pike and what a show they put on. The Plumbers are quick to commend Mr. Brown and Mr. Fox on bringing an excellent dog in top condition. They also say they plan on retiring the old warrior, no that he is officially a Champion.

As I look back, I can only recall a few heavyweights that were ever in Alligator’s league. Hooten’s Butcher Boy, Sampson (Alligator’s half brother) were two very good dogs that ended each other’s careers. There was also a dog out of Tennessee that sure impressed me, but in my mind Alligator will always be the best.

Besides a great combat dog, Alligator was a pleasure to be around and always a clown. He was never bred to an army of bitches, but produced what I consider his share of really good dogs. This story goes further than Alligator himself and must include his littermates and both his and their offspring. They represent not just a few good dogs, but a great family of dogs that have stood the test of time, not just in this country but on five continents. You must remember these dogs were never mass-produced, but still have made a tremendous impact on the dogs of today. I have never been overly sentimental about my dogs, but have had a few of these dogs that were special to me.

Of all the things said about the Alligator family I think the most impressive trait I’ve seen is how well it crosses with most any other good family of dogs. I sincerely believe it is a genetic pool that cannot hurt any breeding program, and in most cases adds that something special that comes along from time to time, that makes them special and that is what we are all looking for, right?

Bull Plug